Thom Bishop discusses the musical revue "Suburbs of Heaven"

Studs Terkel Thom Bishop is one of the most prolific of Chicago songwriters and singers, and one of the most giving too, often on some occasion, where he'd appear-- he'll write a song to fit it. And now he's written something that might be called a musical-- not musical theater-- musical-- he'll tell us about it [laughter]. Ideas, songs that are strung together, and form a pattern, and it's very intriguing. The title, certainly, is too, as well as the songs, "Suburbs of Heaven," it's called and it's at Gaspars. That's at Thursdays through Sundays, through February 18th, that's at 3 1 5 9 North Southport, corner Belmont. And so Thom's here with two of his colleagues, "Suburbs of Heaven," Megon McDonough, and Marty Peifer. And we'll hear some of the songs, and reflections, and whatever comes to mind during this forthcoming, which is now hour.[pause in recording] [music fading] "Mr. Arthur's Place," that's Marty Peifer, singing songs, that to me, hearing them for the very first time, rather poignant, moving, and I'm not quite certain why, because I'm as vague as the girl, but it's somethin' else, isn't it, Thom, that is evoked here, isn't it, that feeling of some uncertainty, isn't there.

Thom Bishop Yeah well that song-- that was the first song that I ever wrote. I wrote that when I was down in college, down in Champaign, and, in a sense, that-- because of that song, is is even why we're-- we even put a musical revue together, because since that song was-- it was so successful, just in the fact, that when I played it for people, they said, "You ought to write more songs." I just kept writin' more songs and so, like, you know, six years later I had all this material and from that, you know--

Studs Terkel This-- This was six years ago--

Thom Bishop Right.

Studs Terkel When you were at Champaign.

Thom Bishop Right.

Studs Terkel Let's figure this thing out. It's six years ago, and this now 1979, so it's 1973, all kinds of things are going on. But that-- that something happ-- well go ahead, you tell me, I'm thinkin' about this song and and what followed.

Thom Bishop Well, that particular song is a is pretty visual song, and I think, like, the title, "Suburbs of Heaven," evokes an image of growing up-- to me, it evokes, you know, growing up in America. Especially, you know, coming from the place that a lot of people of my age group, my generation, came from and so-- "Mr. Arthur's Place," it has that sort of middle-class alienation about it. As a matter of fact, Marty-- Marty sang a line in there which I-- it was a mistake but I went and liked it too, at the end he sang, "And he turned out the bedroom light, you have a word or two," you're supposed to say, but he said, "Turn out the bedroom light, you have a drink or two."

Studs Terkel Oh, that's interesting-- that's a good slip. Hey, that's a marvelous slip.

Thom Bishop Yeah,

Studs Terkel Marty said, "A word or two."

Thom Bishop No. It was supposed to be, "A word or two--"

Studs Terkel Marty said, "A drink or two drink," you said, "A word or two." Really doesn't make a difference, does it?

Thom Bishop Maybe it doesn't--

Studs Terkel That's-- isn't that one of the points, that she says-- it's up to you.

Thom Bishop Yeah right.

Studs Terkel So, it doesn't make a difference, drink or word.

Thom Bishop Right. I liked it. It's a - It's just that that sort of ennui

Studs Terkel

Thom Bishop Thom Bishop is one of the most prolific of Chicago songwriters and singers, and one of the most giving too, often on some occasion, where he'd appear-- he'll write a song to fit it. And now he's written something that might be called a musical-- not musical theater-- musical-- he'll tell us about it [laughter]. Ideas, songs that are strung together, and form a pattern, and it's very intriguing. The title, certainly, is too, as well as the songs, "Suburbs of Heaven," it's called and it's at Gaspars. That's at Thursdays through Sundays, through February 18th, that's at 3 1 5 9 North Southport, corner Belmont. And so Thom's here with two of his colleagues, "Suburbs of Heaven," Megon McDonough, and Marty Peifer. And we'll hear some of the songs, and reflections, and whatever comes to mind during this forthcoming, which is now hour.[pause in recording] [music fading] "Mr. Arthur's Place," that's Marty Peifer, singing songs, that to me, hearing them for the very first time, rather poignant, moving, and I'm not quite certain why, because I'm as vague as the girl, but it's somethin' else, isn't it, Thom, that is evoked here, isn't it, that feeling of some uncertainty, isn't there. Yeah well that song-- that was the first song that I ever wrote. I wrote that when I was down in college, down in Champaign, and, in a sense, that-- because of that song, is is even why we're-- we even put a musical revue together, because since that song was-- it was so successful, just in the fact, that when I played it for people, they said, "You ought to write more songs." I just kept writin' more songs and so, like, you know, six years later I had all this material and from that, you know-- This-- This was six years ago-- Right. When you were at Champaign. Right. Let's figure this thing out. It's six years ago, and this now 1979, so it's 1973, all kinds of things are going on. But that-- that something happ-- well go ahead, you tell me, I'm thinkin' about this song and and what followed. Well, that particular song is a is pretty visual song, and I think, like, the title, "Suburbs of Heaven," evokes an image of growing up-- to me, it evokes, you know, growing up in America. Especially, you know, coming from the place that a lot of people of my age group, my generation, came from and so-- "Mr. Arthur's Place," it has that sort of middle-class alienation about it. As a matter of fact, Marty-- Marty sang a line in there which I-- it was a mistake but I went and liked it too, at the end he sang, "And he turned out the bedroom light, you have a word or two," you're supposed to say, but he said, "Turn out the bedroom light, you have a drink or two." Oh, that's interesting-- that's a good slip. Hey, that's a marvelous slip. Yeah, Marty said, "A word or two." No. It was supposed to be, "A word or two--" Marty said, "A drink or two drink," you said, "A word or two." Really doesn't make a difference, does it? Maybe it doesn't-- That's-- isn't that one of the points, that she says-- it's up to you. Yeah right. So, it doesn't make a difference, drink or word. Right. I liked it. It's a - It's just that that sort of ennui Yeah. -you Right.

Thom Bishop So and so-

Thom Bishop More drinks, more talk--

Studs Terkel And so, "Suburbs of Heaven," the idea is just that something away from where trouble might be-

Thom Bishop Yeah.

Studs Terkel -- up there too?

Thom Bishop Up there, I guess. [laughter]

Megon McDonough I hope not.

Studs Terkel Well is that-- if there is a theme, I realize, now, as you're talking you-- the songs you've written connect one to the other. There's not a storyline, but the songs do. Is there is there then, a connecting link to these-- a theme. You spoke of ennui and middle cla-- is this it throughout?

Thom Bishop I think that there is, in a sense, I mean, see, I just had all these songs, and and Gail Isaacson, who directs the show, and helped me put it together, helped me develop it. I just sort of opened up my books to her, and she, you know, looked at it, and I had gone through about a couple of drafts of the thing at that point, and was kind of, too close to it, and couldn't, you know, really make sense of it after a point. And so she really made a lot of the connections and if you-- when you sit there and look at the songs, you'll see how one song goes into the other, like, you know, a lot of the songs are about communication or lack of communication, like the opening-- the opening song of the second act, there's a song called, "Telephone," which maybe we'll sing later on. And that's just about how so many people just have that mediated experience of knowing people, and never seeing them, and never touching them, and then that leads into a song which Marty will sing later called, "Just Because You Didn't Answer Doesn't Mean I Didn't Call." So there is-- there is kind of-- there are a lot of connections there without plot--

Studs Terkel Do you see-- this is-- as we go on-- from-- we will in a moment, Megon, here, and Marty, and yourself, the two other members in the cast, who are not here, but do you see a difference between the time you wrote "Mr. Arthur's Place," six years ago and today?

Thom Bishop The overall picture, or?

Studs Terkel Yeah, in other words, would your songs be altered-- would one song you write today be different?

Thom Bishop Yeah.

Studs Terkel In

Thom Bishop I think so, because like, well, like that song I mentioned, "Telephone," is the latest song that I wrote, which is in-- which is in it. And I'm finding that most of the songs that I'm writin' lately, are just about havin' to deal with livin' within the environment, which we have, in a sense, I mean-- you know, I don't present them as heavy as that may sound, but-- but like, I think the major issues today are, like, you know, people being deprived of of sensory things, you know, people mediated experience, you know, vicarious experience, you know, television, the alienation that everybody feels just in living in society. And so like, I think that that's reflected in some of the songs that I'm coming up with now, where before I only suspected it, and didn't really know how to put

Studs Terkel What's one? So, we heard, "Mr. Arthur's Place," that Marty sang on there, as I see the restaurant, and I see the suburb, and it could be anyone, in any state, any--any big city. And Mr. Arthur could be Italian, or

Thom Bishop

Megon McDonough Thom Bishop is one of the most prolific of Chicago songwriters and singers, and one of the most giving too, often on some occasion, where he'd appear-- he'll write a song to fit it. And now he's written something that might be called a musical-- not musical theater-- musical-- he'll tell us about it [laughter]. Ideas, songs that are strung together, and form a pattern, and it's very intriguing. The title, certainly, is too, as well as the songs, "Suburbs of Heaven," it's called and it's at Gaspars. That's at Thursdays through Sundays, through February 18th, that's at 3 1 5 9 North Southport, corner Belmont. And so Thom's here with two of his colleagues, "Suburbs of Heaven," Megon McDonough, and Marty Peifer. And we'll hear some of the songs, and reflections, and whatever comes to mind during this forthcoming, which is now hour.[pause in recording] [music fading] "Mr. Arthur's Place," that's Marty Peifer, singing songs, that to me, hearing them for the very first time, rather poignant, moving, and I'm not quite certain why, because I'm as vague as the girl, but it's somethin' else, isn't it, Thom, that is evoked here, isn't it, that feeling of some uncertainty, isn't there. Yeah well that song-- that was the first song that I ever wrote. I wrote that when I was down in college, down in Champaign, and, in a sense, that-- because of that song, is is even why we're-- we even put a musical revue together, because since that song was-- it was so successful, just in the fact, that when I played it for people, they said, "You ought to write more songs." I just kept writin' more songs and so, like, you know, six years later I had all this material and from that, you know-- This-- This was six years ago-- Right. When you were at Champaign. Right. Let's figure this thing out. It's six years ago, and this now 1979, so it's 1973, all kinds of things are going on. But that-- that something happ-- well go ahead, you tell me, I'm thinkin' about this song and and what followed. Well, that particular song is a is pretty visual song, and I think, like, the title, "Suburbs of Heaven," evokes an image of growing up-- to me, it evokes, you know, growing up in America. Especially, you know, coming from the place that a lot of people of my age group, my generation, came from and so-- "Mr. Arthur's Place," it has that sort of middle-class alienation about it. As a matter of fact, Marty-- Marty sang a line in there which I-- it was a mistake but I went and liked it too, at the end he sang, "And he turned out the bedroom light, you have a word or two," you're supposed to say, but he said, "Turn out the bedroom light, you have a drink or two." Oh, that's interesting-- that's a good slip. Hey, that's a marvelous slip. Yeah, Marty said, "A word or two." No. It was supposed to be, "A word or two--" Marty said, "A drink or two drink," you said, "A word or two." Really doesn't make a difference, does it? Maybe it doesn't-- That's-- isn't that one of the points, that she says-- it's up to you. Yeah right. So, it doesn't make a difference, drink or word. Right. I liked it. It's a - It's just that that sort of ennui Yeah. -you So and so- More drinks, more talk-- And so, "Suburbs of Heaven," the idea is just that something away from where trouble might be- Yeah. -- up there too? Up there, I guess. [laughter] I hope not. Well is that-- if there is a theme, I realize, now, as you're talking you-- the songs you've written connect one to the other. There's not a storyline, but the songs do. Is there is there then, a connecting link to these-- a theme. You spoke of ennui and middle cla-- is this it throughout? I think that there is, in a sense, I mean, see, I just had all these songs, and and Gail Isaacson, who directs the show, and helped me put it together, helped me develop it. I just sort of opened up my books to her, and she, you know, looked at it, and I had gone through about a couple of drafts of the thing at that point, and was kind of, too close to it, and couldn't, you know, really make sense of it after a point. And so she really made a lot of the connections and if you-- when you sit there and look at the songs, you'll see how one song goes into the other, like, you know, a lot of the songs are about communication or lack of communication, like the opening-- the opening song of the second act, there's a song called, "Telephone," which maybe we'll sing later on. And that's just about how so many people just have that mediated experience of knowing people, and never seeing them, and never touching them, and then that leads into a song which Marty will sing later called, "Just Because You Didn't Answer Doesn't Mean I Didn't Call." So there is-- there is kind of-- there are a lot of connections there without plot-- Do you see-- this is-- as we go on-- from-- we will in a moment, Megon, here, and Marty, and yourself, the two other members in the cast, who are not here, but do you see a difference between the time you wrote "Mr. Arthur's Place," six years ago and today? The overall picture, or? Yeah, in other words, would your songs be altered-- would one song you write today be different? Yeah. In I think so, because like, well, like that song I mentioned, "Telephone," is the latest song that I wrote, which is in-- which is in it. And I'm finding that most of the songs that I'm writin' lately, are just about havin' to deal with livin' within the environment, which we have, in a sense, I mean-- you know, I don't present them as heavy as that may sound, but-- but like, I think the major issues today are, like, you know, people being deprived of of sensory things, you know, people mediated experience, you know, vicarious experience, you know, television, the alienation that everybody feels just in living in society. And so like, I think that that's reflected in some of the songs that I'm coming up with now, where before I only suspected it, and didn't really know how to put into What's one? So, we heard, "Mr. Arthur's Place," that Marty sang on there, as I see the restaurant, and I see the suburb, and it could be anyone, in any state, any--any big city. And Mr. Arthur could be Italian, or he Yeah. Right.

Studs Terkel -be Spanish-

Thom Bishop Yeah.

Studs Terkel -or he could be German, or Swedish--he could be anything. Okay. And the places-- yes, sir--

Thom Bishop Well, Megon has a song that she sings in it, which is about that communication we're talking about, and it's a song called, "Why Not Talk To Me," which takes place probably late at night in a city street. [pause in recording]

Studs Terkel [Mary Anne?] solo, "Telephone," is there, but nothing more than that. Pretty much. I just-I was wondering, Thom, these about 20 songs, here in the six years you've chosen these. This is one definite theme-- alienation. Yet, the songs you've written, not here, that I've heard you sing. Deal with-- very much-- things much more personal-- that is--in which there was more personal-- sometimes, negatively, like, "Saturday Night Special." You've chosen specifically these songs.

Thom Bishop Yeah, I think-- I think we wanted to have [throat clearing]-- you know, have an overall concept, or overall theme, you know, to the work. And that's-- that's why, you know, we made these choices, you know, and again, a lot of the choices were Gail's. You know, because I wanted some-- an objective eye, you know, to look at them because sometimes when I'm manning a thing, you know, might not be what was perceived by somebody else. I had had to have somebody else put that together for me.

Studs Terkel Remember, way back, when we first-- you talked about background beginnings and so, these songs didn't come about by accident, came about by your own personal life, family, background, an area where you live.

Thom Bishop I think, yeah, a lot of these things were like, sort of, before you even started writin' songs, a lot of these things were, sort of, welling up and a lot of the people in the cast, you know, we've talked about just what it was like out there to have-- especially to to have grown up, you know, white and middle class, to have gotten all this really heavy information. You know, we were the first generation which which can't remember when there wasn't a television, and, you know, televisions are 25 years old or something. I just remember, we used to just-- I used to sit out there and this, you know, kind of a safe environment, you know, in this nice town and get all This

Studs Terkel these-- This is where now?

Thom Bishop It was in Springfield, Illinois-

Studs Terkel Springfield.

Thom Bishop -at that time. And get all this incredible information and and then just-- and just be going crazy all the time because, you know, then the people would just be, you know, sort of numb to it, or wouldn't be dealing with it, or would deal with it-- you know, absurdities, you know. And I know a lot of other people that were my age felt the same way because you'd go to school and you talk about these things, you know, which were on your mind, and the reason that they were on your mind is because they became real to you, you know, through television, through information, and but then-- you know, people who were maybe in control of your life, immediately at that time-- teachers and stuff like that, didn't seem to be as concerned with it, and it was really frustrating.

Studs Terkel Is that you-Megon McDonough is your background similar to Thom's?

Megon McDonough Very much so, I think. [laughter] I grew up in Crystal Lake. That's why I really enjoyed doing the show. There's so much that I can relate to, Ernie Miller and I, do a song called, "Safe Side of Town." And every time-- every night I sing this song, I can see, sitting on the golf course, you know,[laughter] with, you know, with a boyfriend or something, and just thinking, [cough] "Oh, we're going to--" I've I've written this song called, "Empty Spaces," and and one of the opening lines is, "Driving around in convertible cars, content with being small-town stars, saying someday we'll go far." And when I hear Thom's music, it reminds me so much of-- of my growing up, and I have a real affection for his music, and I can relate to it, but I can just-- every night I sing that song, "Safe Side of Town," I think of convertibles and and, really, being kind of spoiled kids, but, you know, what you say about middle-class. I once asked my father, I said, you know, being concerned with that growing up, am my lower-- am my lower class-- my middle class-- am my upper class-- I said to my father, I said, "Dad, are we lower class, middle class, upper class." [laughter] He said, "Meg, we're just first class." [laughter] So [unintelligible] it's not

Studs Terkel Marty, does this ring a bell to you? [laughter] Does this ring a bell to you?

Marty Peifer [unintelligible] When I asked my dad are we middle class or lower class, he said, "No, we're Irish." [laughter] [unintelligible]

Megon McDonough [laughter] Oh, that's

Marty Peifer I grew up on the North Side, here, in Chicago. I didn't-- not in an in an especially bad neighborhood, but not especially-- you know, it wasn't one of the wealthier neighborhoods, either. So I'm-- on some levels I can. I went to high school in Evanston. So, well a lot of my high school friends are related to it.

Studs Terkel Do-- do-- do Thom's songs in, "Suburbs of Heaven," they touch you, as to him and Megan? As far as you're concerned-- background and-- does it ring a bell to you?

Marty Peifer A lot of it, yes. Most of

Studs Terkel it. Yeah.

Marty Peifer Not all of it though.

Studs Terkel Well, now we have an idea, don't we? Hearing these two songs-- so, we heard that place-- "Mr. Arthur's Place," and then that machine called a, "Telephone," which is not too much connection taking place, and the person talking, the person hearing, and-- what what do you suggest?

Thom Bishop Well, maybe we could-- maybe we could sing that, "Telephone," song--

Studs Terkel The "Telephone," itself--

Thom Bishop Yeah.

Studs Terkel [unintelligible]

Thom Bishop Ernie-- Ernie Miller plays a large part in this and Roberta Stack, also-- both of them are in the cast and they're not

Studs Terkel [music fading] Funny, you you know, the image that comes to my mind at the airport, waitin' to call to the station, or home there, and some number, you know-- and people around the phone, the phones are occ-- waiting. And now you wonder what that person is talking about and you're hoping he's going to hang up-- or she's going to hang up, and, yet, what they're saying is probably terribly important to them-- maybe not! [laughter] Maybe what you're saying isn't that important either!

Thom Bishop Right.

Studs Terkel You see. [laughter] And so, this--this this matter of people on the phone, talking--

Thom Bishop The thing that blows my mind about the telephone is that you can just-- you know, really where it's-- everything is so plugged in at this point, that you can get in touch with anybody you want to get in touch with, if you just-- if you know, kind of, like, what continent they live in [laughter], you know. You can call up directory assistance in Norman, Oklahoma and find out somebody that you haven't talked to in ten years, and blow their mind with-- you know, with a with a telephone call. That's really crazy, you know--

Studs Terkel A moment ago you said something-- what you just said is connecting with that. You said all the stuff you were fed, your generation, your's, and Megon's, and and Marty's, and in many cases suburban, many cases city, but the TV comes through with facts, not necessary truth, but facts [laughter]. Details, items, items like an item's columnist, you know, comes through and some very banal of no meaning at all, and, yet, given equal importance as they're offered. This is the point Fellini made in the film, "La Dolce Vita," he was explaining-- he chose a gossip columnist, Marcello, as the central figure. You remember, "La Dolce

Marty Peifer Vita,"- Yeah.

Studs Terkel -the film? The central figure of a study of Rome, at a certain time, and this figure is a gossip columnist. And so, everything he does, is of equal importance, whether it could be a scandal in a nightclub, or a miracle involving Christ and people gathering around. Everything is of equal importance. And so what you're getting--

Thom Bishop Yeah--

Studs Terkel Doesn't matter what it is. And so, the telephone, we, ourselves, our own behavior becomes that, as we're doing the transmitting.

Thom Bishop Yeah and it's it's the same thing with television. Everything becomes of equal importance because it's like-- the news, you know, actually watching, you know, Jerry Mander, in his book-- I think last time we were together, we talked about this too, in his book, "Four Arguments for the Elimination of Television." He makes a point where he says that, you know, it's not a significantly different experience to watch Charlie's Angels, or the news, or a commercial, or the Borneo forest because they're still, on any given night, 80 million people, all by themselves watching television--

Studs Terkel And so, if everything is so-- banality comes through with an equal force, sometimes more force, as that which could be important-- then nothing's important, and nothing is

Thom Bishop It's all-- all becomes arbitrary.

Studs Terkel So, we come back to, "Suburbs of Heaven," don't we?

Megon McDonough I think the thing also about the telephone, in in our business, especially, when you travel as much as-- as we have in the past, the telephone becomes your only link with the outside world, when you're in your hotel room, or when you're-- when you're traveling, you you don't have time to read the newspaper, or sit down to breakfast and-- you know, turn on the radio when you're at home. You have to-- you don't have a radio in your hotel room, usually, but you do have a TV, and you do have a telephone. And, really, your whole world revolves around these two things.

Thom Bishop Right. And the TV brings the information [unintelligible]

Studs Terkel By the way, every hotel room, motel room, anybody's-- except, maybe, a flophouse, and they too would have-- has a TV set.

Thom Bishop Oh yeah.

Megon McDonough Right. Right. Well, so the Motel 6's that I've stayed in, you need a key. [laughter] You pay 50 cents for a key for the TV--

Studs Terkel But that's it, it has a TV.

Megon McDonough Right.

Studs Terkel -it may not have a bathroom, but have a TV. You see.

Megon McDonough Yeah--

Studs Terkel But, there are more TV's than bathrooms, in the country, I think. [laughter]

Marty Peiper Sometimes in motels, they have more [paper?] too--

Studs Terkel So, what what-- before, we take a break, what is another--

Thom Bishop Since we just did, "Telephone," maybe, Marty, could sing, "Just Because You Didn't Answer--"

Marty Peifer Hand me the capo there, would you--

Studs Terkel "Just Because You Didn't Answer."

Thom Bishop Yeah.

Megon McDonough I've

Studs Terkel [pause in recording] Now we're talking about to Thom Bishop, and to Marty Peiper, and to Megon McDonough, and it's Thom's musical, connecting links, called, "Suburbs of Heaven," [guitar playing in the background] and they're playing with two other performers, Ernie Miller and Roberta Stack? You say? Playing at-- at Gaspars, Thursdays through Sundays, and I think two performances on Fridays and Saturdays--

Thom Bishop Actually, we've just added a third-- we've added a special midnight show, because Fridays and Saturday's have been good.

Studs Terkel So at Gaspars, which is 3 1 5 9 North, Southport, it's at Belmont. [pause in recording] [music fading] So, missed connection again, huh? Look with Thom, a missed connection-- [laughter] You think he ever going to connect, Thom?

Thom Bishop I sure hope so.

Studs Terkel I was wondering--

Thom Bishop I had a friend one time-- that was-- to came to visit me, and he didn't know anybody in town, and and-- the first day he was there, he picked up the telephone, and he dials these seven numbers, and he listens to it for a while, and he hangs it up, and about a half hour later, it was really killing me. I said, "Michael," I said, "I know you don't know anybody in town, who did you call?" And he goes, "I was just proving to myself, that we no longer need Descartes in our present, technological society." I said, "How are you proving that?" and he goes, "Well, Descartes said, 'I think, therefore I am.' But, today, you just have to dial your number, if it's busy, you're still alive."

Studs Terkel I call, therefore I am. [laughter] Yeah.

Thom Bishop Yeah.

Studs Terkel I call, therefore I am.

Thom Bishop Yeah.

Studs Terkel It's busy, you're still alive, yeah. So, are we going to connect-- [laughter] you know, now, I'm thinking, in your writing, now-- the songs you're doing now, this is through the years, isn't it? [guitar playing in the background] Then to now. Would you write a song now-- of a song-- this moment, 1979. Would it still be in this pattern of all these?

Thom Bishop I think it's going to be something different. I don't really know what it is. I think this-- this put-- all of us puttin' this revue together, it's sort of given me a little time to reflect on what, you know, what I've got and what I'm going to do. And I think it's going to be different, but I really don't know what it is.

Studs Terkel Thom Bishop, Megon McDonough, and Marty Peifer, we'll we'll pick it up, "Suburbs of Heaven," and I like it-- by the way, the title, before, we'll hear from Kerry Frumkin and a message, and return to more of the songs. And I want to hear several of those-- particularly, you know-- "Suburbs of Heaven," the title, itself, was-- I suppose, it's pretty obvious, it's connected with where you live, where you were, and also, I suppose, what? The the image of-- paradise, in a way.

Thom Bishop Yeah, or just outside paradise. [laughter]

Studs Terkel It's it's a development-- a development outside paradise

Thom Bishop Which it's supposed to be greater than paradise, but--

Studs Terkel We'll resume in a moment. [pause in recording] Thom Bishop, who's written his songs are comprised, "Suburbs of Heaven," and two of his colleagues are here, Megon McDonough, and Marty Peifer. Before we hear the song, you're about to suggest-- the title song, "Suburbs of Heaven," I asked you where suburbs of heaven was, you know, how many miles outside, you know, is it 30 miles outside this development? In Los Angeles, they-- when they ask you how far you live, they don't say 20 miles, they say 20 minutes-- 15 minutes, it's time.

Thom Bishop That's right.

Studs Terkel They never judge-- there is no judging of distance, simply, how long will it take to get there. "Oh, it's a half hour." No, but how many miles? "Well I don't know, it's a half hour."

Megon McDonough Oh, wow, yeah.

Studs Terkel That's the way it is.

Megon McDonough Yeah.

Marty Piefer I grew up, as a kid, I was always told that the suburbs of heaven was [Limbo?] and there's no time there [laughter], so you'd be in real big trouble.

Megon McDonough Purgatory.

Studs Terkel So, we-- so, we enter the suburbs. [pause in recording] [music fading] So, that's how it is out there, huh?

Thom Bishop [laughter] That's how some people perceive it.

Megon McDonough Right. Picnics

Studs Terkel Between the, "Suburbs of Heaven," and the top of the world. But is-- and so, the removal from-- in fact it's implied then, in other words, removal from feeling-- from--so, what what do you suggest, as a way out?

Megon McDonough Something way out, right?

Thom Bishop I don't know. I think-- I think-- I think, maybe, just not being above it all, you know. Just coming, you know, coming down and and being among-- being among the real world--

Studs Terkel Would you say, now-- let's leave this open-- do you say-- each of you three, the scene that describes-- the feeling described in the, "Suburbs of Heaven," is the feeling, now, generally, in '79?

Megon McDonough I notice that-- the character that that I'm playing, I call her the, you know, the Ann- Margret of-- of pop music. I'm not quite that, forgive me for-- I'm not quite that depressed about it. I mean-- and I live in the suburbs now [laughter]. I live in Los Angeles, sometimes, and and I also live outside of Chicago, here, and-- to use Los Angeles terms, about 45 minutes away. I'm not quite that jaded about it now, yet, I suppose, maybe if I had three children, and-- and two dogs, and my husband had a job he didn't like-- then I would feel the way my character does when I sing, "Suburbs of Heaven." But, I'm a musician, and I'm doing

Studs Terkel Yeah, so your situation is a bit different. You are the-- you are the interpreter.

Megon McDonough Right, exactly. But, I think that there are a lot of women my age, who who really do feel this way. I see them every day at the Jewel food store. They're discouraged. You know, unfortunately.

Marty Piefer I'd agree with that too. I think-- for most of the people that I know that I went to school with, most of them, the vast majority of them, now live in the suburbs, and have a wife, and a family, and everything. All the music they listen to, that they think is really great, is the music that was popular when we were in high school.

Megon McDonough Right.

Marty Piefer They still listen to that

Studs Terkel So that's interesting. In a way, when I heard that first song, when you were singing, "Mr. Arthur's Place," Marty, I thought at first, it was somebody older dancing with someone who--

Megon McDonough Right.

Studs Terkel -trying to recall that moment he felt pretty good, and now a bit tired and weary-- that's what I thought at first, it wasn't so-- you're saying is--

Marty Peifer Yeah.

Studs Terkel -those be what? 30's, roughly, how old?

Marty Piefer I'm 29,

Studs Terkel 29, 29, 29, already, and thinking of what it was way back.

Megon McDonough Oh, sure

Studs Terkel yeah-- That's

Thom Bishop That line in there-- that line in there about the-- I'm glad you picked up on that, because-- the line in there about the music played while the masquerade. Well, I mean music played such a big part in in everybody's life, and it it was like, especially, through through the radio-- that just comes back to the fact that, you know, America, you know is, everybody everybody's so plugged in. And there were nights when it seemed like everybody was listening to the same radio station and [laughter] it sort of orchestrated your

Studs Terkel Yeah, but I'm thinkin' about what Marty-- all kind of what Marty said, 29, his contemporaries, and they're thinkin', music they like is the music of another time. I thought-- what a generation years ago was 25 years-- parent and child-- you said generation is now five years, the other time was,

Marty Peifer [unintelligible] my wife about four years ago--

Studs Terkel Four years ago--

Marty Peifer I was doing a a college date, and I suddenly realized, that I was thinking of all the students at this college that I was playing at, as kids, and, myself, as an adult.

Megon McDonough Right.

Marty Peifer And I was 25 at the time-

Marty Peifer Yeah.

Marty Peifer -you know, old man-- [laughter]

Studs Terkel The tempo's picked up,

Megon McDonough Yeah.

Studs Terkel So that's a generation four or five years now.

Marty Peifer Yeah.

Megon McDonough It's very strange. Very strange.

Studs Terkel Which leads us to what,

Thom Bishop "Times I've Tried to Love You," which is a-- it's a departure from sort of what we've been doing. This is a relationship song. It was like-- that was-- that's a big part of the show, is that Gail Isaacson put a lot of the sequences together as, you know, answers to different people's interpersonal relationships, and this is one of the songs.

Studs Terkel I suppose, the personal relationship, inevitably, is affected by the whole environment-- the way you are, the way you live, I suppose, that, here again,it- somethin' happens in the individuals, themselves, in relation to someone seemingly close.

Megon McDonough Well, being so bombarded, what we were talking about earlier, I think, has an effect on on personal relationships, you know, in today's world.

Studs Terkel Well, the word that Thom used earlier, word another guy used years ago, "alienation,"

Megon McDonough Right.

Studs Terkel So, we come to that again.

Megon McDonough Right.

Studs Terkel Well, what, what "Suburbs of Heaven," is-- is the-- I was about to say not play, not theater, it's a connecting link-- connecting links between the songs of Thom Bishop, and they offer the portrait of the way a great number of people feel, what or I should say, don't feel [laughter], in the way we live today. That's at Gaspars, at-- on Southport, right near Belmont, 3 1 5 9 North Southport, and it's Thursdays through Sundays, and there are three performances on Saturday, and two on Friday. A couple of more songs, because there's one called, "Amateur Night," and one called, "New Year's Eve,"-

Thom Bishop Right.

Studs Terkel -and another, "Somebody Feels the Water."

Thom Bishop Well "Amateur Night" is a is a spoken piece that leads into, "New Year's Eve," which Megon and Marty do. [pause in recording]

Studs Terkel That's a sad New Year's Eve, that's coming for a midnight special here on WFMT, New Year's Eve, come up here, and you work till 6 o'clock, and you wouldn't have that feelin'.

Thom Bishop Right. That spoken

Marty Peifer Very little feeling by 6 o'clock, as I recall--[laughter]

Megon McDonough Right, right.

Studs Terkel By 6 o'clock, you'll have the feeling. What were you saying about the spoken--

Thom Bishop The spoken part that Megon and Marty do sort of changes every-- there's lines, which change every night.

Studs Terkel I like that.

Thom Bishop Yeah.

Megon McDonough We've been working in this

Studs Terkel Also, there's an aspect of banality to it. [laughter] No there is. I mean, the idea that the New Year's Eve memories they can be personal, but not quite.

Thom Bishop Right.

Megon McDonough Right.

Thom Bishop Yeah.

Studs Terkel Again, influenced by, whatever it is, that surrounds us.

Thom Bishop Yeah.

Studs Terkel You're talking about, "Somebody Feels the Water," and-- and, "Amateur Night," too--

Thom Bishop Right. Well, "Somebody Feels the Water," this is a song which-- which follows, "New Year's Eve." It ends the first act and we sing it acapella. This is a song called, "Somebody Feels the Water." [pause in recording]

Studs Terkel Yeah, it's true. [laughter] So that ends the first act and-- of course, there is, I suppose, the implication of that one too, is that-- we are, whether we like it or not, we are connected. So there is a connection, after all, isn't there?

Thom Bishop And you get back what you send out. [laughter]

Megon McDonough And you better be a responsible person, right? Be a responsible adult.

Studs Terkel We've heard about seven, eight songs from-- about 20 or so, in, "Suburbs of Heaven." It seems like a fascinating-- I'll posit, delightful in a way, but moving evening too, and it's-- the performance is at Gaspars, on Southport, corner of Belmont, Thursday's through Sunday's. [pause in recording] We've heard of, "Suburbs of Heaven," now, and Megon McDonough, and Marty Peifer, here, graciously came this morning and offered some of the songs, you have two other colleagues, are, Roberta Stack, and Ernie Miller, and Thom Bishop, the writer of the songs. Perhaps, a little bonus-- one of your other songs, just a bonus, a sort of a-- a sign off for this hour. And you-- name your poison.

Megon McDonough [laughter]

Thom Bishop OK, is there a capo here?

Studs Terkel This is Thom Bishop--

Thom Bishop I'd like to sing a song that Megon and I wrote together. This is a song-- if we can get it in a-- sort of a coexistent key here, I think we can. [pause in recording]

Studs Terkel Very poignant song, thank you both. And, of course, Marty Peifer, too,-

Megon McDonough It was our pleasure.

Studs Terkel -Megon McDonough, and Thom Bishop. Thom's songs connected, and I'll say a portrait of a part of our society today, "Suburbs of Heaven," and at Gaspars, Southport and near Belmont.

Thom Bishop And yeah, before we leave, Gail Isaacson, who couldn't be here today because she was not feeling well, we'd just like to, you know, thank her for all the work that she's done--

Megon McDonough Take your Vitamin C, Gail, I keep telling you--

Studs Terkel Well thank you very much.

Megon McDonough Thank you,

Studs Terkel All three of you--

Marty Peifer Thank you very

Studs Terkel This is our program for this morning. And after we hear from Kerry Frumkin, and a word-- a word about tomorrow's program and guests.