Interviewing ragtime pianist-composer Eubie Blake, Bill Bolcolm and Bob Kimball
BROADCAST: Feb. 5, 1973 | DURATION: 00:28:14
Synopsis
Interviewing ragtime pianist-composer Eubie Blake, Bill Bolcolm and Bob Kimball. They discuss the musical "Shuffle Along." Songs include "Gee I'm Glad I'm From Dixie," "Dream Rag," "Brittwood Rag," "He May Be Your Man," "Brass Knuckles," and "Memories of You."
Transcript
Tap within the transcript to jump to that part of the audio.
Studs Terkel And so as we listen, that was 1921 that Eubie Blake, you're seat here, you- that was you playing it [before?], you remember that?
Eubie Blake Yes, yes that was the finale of "Shuffle Along."
Studs Terkel Baltimore Buzz that was called.
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Studs Terkel So we have to talk of "Shuffle Along"--very beginnings--the story of Eubie Blake really--Bob Kimball and Bill Bolcom here--is realistic in a way. One of the key stories of the growth of jazz itself and specifically of ragtime, but "Shuffle Along" was the in a way re--Eubie, you and your partner, Noble Sissle, Sissle and Blake.
Studs Terkel [Unintelligible] order two. That, that hap- we keep this open now if [unintelligible] and had to be the first--that was almost a revolutionary musical, wasn't it? "Shuffle Along.
Bill Bolcolm Well, it was the most important.
Bill Bolcolm Yeah, I'm Bill Bolcom talking here. This is--well the thing about "Shuffle Along" is after "Shuffle Along," nobody dared have a musical that didn't have syncopation in it, or having some jazz dancing because "Shuffle Along" really revolutionized the whole Broadway musical.
Bob Kimball And Studs what it did is it brought the--
Studs Terkel Bob
Bob Kimball --Operetta tradition and the ragtime together and that became-
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Bob Kimball -what we call the American musical theater style. And that was Eubie Blake and Noble Sissle's great contribution.
Studs Terkel How did that come to be, Eubie? You suppose you were reminiscing, go back to beginnings. How you first met Noble Sissle, but your own beginnings: Baltimore Buzz.
Eubie Blake In Baltimore.
Studs Terkel In Baltimore.
Studs Terkel 15th of May, 1915. And he came in from Indianapolis, see? A fellow named Frank Brown, tenor singer, very good handsome guy, but his wife was very jealous of him.
Studs Terkel Uh-huh.
Eubie Blake And wouldn't let him come. [Studs laughs] So they sent Sissle, and Joe Porter was gonna to work at Riverview Park. [Coughs] Pardon me, and Joe Porter gave everybody it was 5--6 and the band. And he invite and to toast everybody to to me but Sissle to everybody but me--didn't, he didn't invite me. So after while he said, 'Wait a minute,' he said, 'I haven't introduced Eubie to Noble Sissle.' And then when he gave me the induction I said, 'Sissle Sissle, Sissle, that name rings a bell to me.' I said, 'You write lyrics?' He says, 'Yes.' I said, 'I saw your name on a song. I'm looking for a lyricist. And he says, 'All right.' And we shook hands. That was fifteenth of May 1900 and 15.
Studs Terkel You remembered the date. That's how it came to be then. And he would do the lyrics and you do the music? Yeah.
Eubie Blake Yeah. One argument [unintelligible]: want to hear about it?
Eubie Blake We played everything in the United Kingdom, of England
Studs Terkel Uh-huh.
Eubie Blake Now, they wanted to--we were sensational over there and he wanted Sissle. They wanted to go over again. I said, 'No I'm going home'. See? And they started from that not there but a couple of nights after that he said, 'Why do you want to go home?' But he didn't tell me that CB Cochran who
Studs Terkel The British producer.
Eubie Blake And, uh, but just about six years ago he wanted us to write 'cause we saved his shows, see? With two numbers: "Tahiti" and--
Bob Kimball "Let's get married right away."
Eubie Blake "Let's get married right away. And, uh. [Tapping noise repeats] We argued
Studs Terkel So that was the beginning,
Eubie Blake --That's the only argument that I ever had with Noble Sissle in my life.
Studs Terkel The only--I was thinking you and Noble Sissle and your colleagues, "Baltimore Buzz," was the last--one of the last pieces of "Shuffle Along," now "Bandana Days" is also--guys--"Bandana Days" is--was what? A piece out of "Shuffle Along"
Bill Bolcolm too, Well, there's a story behind that one too. You see, "Shuffle Along" was launched with used costumes. What had happened is that the producers, the courts, had had a couple of flops just before then. And all of a sudden you know they wanted to put on this show and nobody had any money, it was all done on a shoestring thing. They built a temporary stage in this what used to be a kind of like a recital hall. Everything was really done completely on the--on the tick, you know? And all of a sudden they found with themselves with all these bandanna-type, handkerchief-kind of costumes, you know? And so they had to write a number for it. And that's how "Bandana Days" got written over the phone.
Eubie Blake That's how the show do to the costumes.
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Bill Bolcolm Yeah yeah. Over the phone you wrote it, didn't you, Eubie?
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Bill Bolcolm Yeah.
Eubie Blake That's right. It was in Boston, and I was in New York.
Studs Terkel So a lot of this, then Eubie, was improvising. You would take--eh--there wasn't too much money involved as far
Studs Terkel So it had to work. One of the chorus girls was Josephine Baker.
Studs Terkel And one of the young members of the quartet was Paul Robeson.
Eubie Blake Paul, yeah, Paul. Uh--somebody died in Han's family and he went to Kansas, see? [Studs agrees] And I had a little argument with Brown about this, but I--Roland Hayes, Strut Payne, and couple other fellas. I can't remember the names now. And I said to Paul I said, 'Listen, Han is going to Kansas City, will you go down?' He says, 'I've never been on a stage.' I said, 'Listen, you--all you got--I say you don't have to do anything but sing with the quartet. And
Bill Bolcolm Four Harmony Kings, that was the--
Studs Terkel Four Harmony is right
Eubie Blake Four Harmony Kings,
Studs Terkel They came out of Rutgers, or--
Bob Kimball Just starting, uh--
Eubie Blake Yeah he came a laywer. Five, five--
Bob Kimball Football All-American football
Eubie Blake 5'8"
Bob Kimball 5'8"
Eubie Blake Better though, I don't know those things about college.
Studs Terkel That's okay. But all, all these great artists whom we know today are legendary figures. Many of them began on "Shuffle Along."
Bob Kimball And
Bob Kimball --William Grant Still--
Studs Terkel Hall Johnson played in the orchestra, too?
Bill Bolcolm Hall Johnson played in the orchestra, he played viola. And, uh, William Grant Still played oboe, and well, a lot of--
Bob Kimball Think you may be able to hear some of
Studs Terkel Alright, so we hear "Bandana Days." Now "Bandana Days" was the early part of "Shuffle Along," is
Bill Bolcolm It was in the early part, I think.
Eubie Blake I think the third number.
Bob Kimball And you know Adelaide Hall in Arthur Chorus.
Studs Terkel Adelaide
Bob Kimball Adelaide Hall was in the chorus and she did it--sang it
Studs Terkel Florence Mills too?
Eubie Blake Flonernce Mills came in and after, after--I can't think of a girl's name.
Bill Bolcolm Gertrude Saunders.
Eubie Blake Gertrude Saunders. Listen, what she did. She left the show to go with the burlesque show for five dollars a week more and that was the mistake she made.
Studs Terkel Yeah. [match strike]
Eubie Blake And--and Flonernce Mills, boy, most dynamic-
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Eubie Blake -woman I've ever seen on a stage.
Studs Terkel You hear then memories of--of "Shuffle
Eubie Blake She was a clever woman.
Studs Terkel Pleasantly, "Bandana Days."
Bob Kimball This this pit orchestra is the orchestra you used to record with?
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Bob Kimball These are the same fellows, those guys who supposedly couldn't read?
Eubie Blake Oh,
Bill Bolcolm [All read, all read?]
Studs Terkel I wanna to ask you about that myth: that matter of not being able to read. Right after, right after we hear "Bandana Days."
Eubie Blake Alright. [pause in recording]
Studs Terkel Again 1921, that recording. And I'm just wild about Harry is the refrain on there.
Bob Kimball Yeah, that's a story.
Studs Terkel One of the most celebrated of Eubie Blake's-
Eubie Blake Yeah
Studs Terkel -pieces.
Eubie Blake Harry?
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Eubie Blake Yes, I--I wrote that years ago, but it was a waltz and Miss G [cough], uh you know, we sent for Miss G.
Bill Bolcolm Miss Loli G, big--one the big one of the stars of
Eubie Blake Just passed, uh, while I was in Los Angeles. And I played this waltz for her. So she says, 'I liked the tune, but I I can't sing it.' I knew of her range, you see? She had a D above the staff, and I never took her no further than a B flat, see, 'cause Will Mary Cook taught me that: not to take people that-that last note. So anyhow, I says, 'Why can't you sing?' She says, 'Because it's a waltz song. Whoever heard of a waltz song in a colored show, I said, 'I did.'
Studs Terkel [Laughs].
Eubie Blake Then she said, 'What show?'I said Williams and Walker's--
Studs Terkel Williams and Walker.
Eubie Blake Williams and Walker. God-
Studs Terkel This
Bob Kimball Abyssin--
Studs Terkel
Eubie Blake
Bob Kimball And so as we listen, that was 1921 that Eubie Blake, you're seat here, you- that was you playing it [before?], you remember that? Yes, yes that was the finale of "Shuffle Along." Baltimore Buzz that was called. Yeah. So we have to talk of "Shuffle Along"--very beginnings--the story of Eubie Blake really--Bob Kimball and Bill Bolcom here--is realistic in a way. One of the key stories of the growth of jazz itself and specifically of ragtime, but "Shuffle Along" was the in a way re--Eubie, you and your partner, Noble Sissle, Sissle and Blake. That's right. [Unintelligible] order two. That, that hap- we keep this open now if [unintelligible] and had to be the first--that was almost a revolutionary musical, wasn't it? "Shuffle Along. Well, it was the most important. That's Bill Bolcom. Yeah, I'm Bill Bolcom talking here. This is--well the thing about "Shuffle Along" is after "Shuffle Along," nobody dared have a musical that didn't have syncopation in it, or having some jazz dancing because "Shuffle Along" really revolutionized the whole Broadway musical. And Studs what it did is it brought the-- Bob --Operetta tradition and the ragtime together and that became- Yeah. -what we call the American musical theater style. And that was Eubie Blake and Noble Sissle's great contribution. How did that come to be, Eubie? You suppose you were reminiscing, go back to beginnings. How you first met Noble Sissle, but your own beginnings: Baltimore Buzz. In Baltimore. In Baltimore. 15th of May, 1915. And he came in from Indianapolis, see? A fellow named Frank Brown, tenor singer, very good handsome guy, but his wife was very jealous of him. Uh-huh. And wouldn't let him come. [Studs laughs] So they sent Sissle, and Joe Porter was gonna to work at Riverview Park. [Coughs] Pardon me, and Joe Porter gave everybody it was 5--6 and the band. And he invite and to toast everybody to to me but Sissle to everybody but me--didn't, he didn't invite me. So after while he said, 'Wait a minute,' he said, 'I haven't introduced Eubie to Noble Sissle.' And then when he gave me the induction I said, 'Sissle Sissle, Sissle, that name rings a bell to me.' I said, 'You write lyrics?' He says, 'Yes.' I said, 'I saw your name on a song. I'm looking for a lyricist. And he says, 'All right.' And we shook hands. That was fifteenth of May 1900 and 15. You remembered the date. That's how it came to be then. And he would do the lyrics and you do the music? Yeah. One argument [unintelligible]: want to hear about it? Yeah. [Laughs] We played everything in the United Kingdom, of England see? Uh-huh. Now, they wanted to--we were sensational over there and he wanted Sissle. They wanted to go over again. I said, 'No I'm going home'. See? And they started from that not there but a couple of nights after that he said, 'Why do you want to go home?' But he didn't tell me that CB Cochran who was The British producer. To to Ziegfeld. Ziegfeld, yeah. And, uh, but just about six years ago he wanted us to write 'cause we saved his shows, see? With two numbers: "Tahiti" and-- "Let's get married right away." "Let's get married right away. And, uh. [Tapping noise repeats] We argued about So that was the beginning, "Shuff--" --That's the only argument that I ever had with Noble Sissle in my life. The only--I was thinking you and Noble Sissle and your colleagues, "Baltimore Buzz," was the last--one of the last pieces of "Shuffle Along," now "Bandana Days" is also--guys--"Bandana Days" is--was what? A piece out of "Shuffle Along" too, Well, there's a story behind that one too. You see, "Shuffle Along" was launched with used costumes. What had happened is that the producers, the courts, had had a couple of flops just before then. And all of a sudden you know they wanted to put on this show and nobody had any money, it was all done on a shoestring thing. They built a temporary stage in this what used to be a kind of like a recital hall. Everything was really done completely on the--on the tick, you know? And all of a sudden they found with themselves with all these bandanna-type, handkerchief-kind of costumes, you know? And so they had to write a number for it. And that's how "Bandana Days" got written over the phone. That's how the show do to the costumes. Yeah. Yeah yeah. Over the phone you wrote it, didn't you, Eubie? Yeah. Yeah. That's right. It was in Boston, and I was in New York. So a lot of this, then Eubie, was improvising. You would take--eh--there wasn't too much money involved as far as-- No money though. So it had to work. One of the chorus girls was Josephine Baker. Jo Baker. And one of the young members of the quartet was Paul Robeson. Paul, yeah, Paul. Uh--somebody died in Han's family and he went to Kansas, see? [Studs agrees] And I had a little argument with Brown about this, but I--Roland Hayes, Strut Payne, and couple other fellas. I can't remember the names now. And I said to Paul I said, 'Listen, Han is going to Kansas City, will you go down?' He says, 'I've never been on a stage.' I said, 'Listen, you--all you got--I say you don't have to do anything but sing with the quartet. And this Four Harmony Kings, that was the-- Four Harmony is right at Four Harmony Kings, right. They came out of Rutgers, or-- Just starting, uh-- Yeah he came a laywer. Five, five-- Football All-American football player. 5'8" 5'8" Better though, I don't know those things about college. That's okay. But all, all these great artists whom we know today are legendary figures. Many of them began on "Shuffle Along." That's right. And --Hall Johnson-- --William Grant Still-- Hall Johnson played in the orchestra, too? Hall Johnson played in the orchestra, he played viola. And, uh, William Grant Still played oboe, and well, a lot of-- Think you may be able to hear some of them. Alright, so we hear "Bandana Days." Now "Bandana Days" was the early part of "Shuffle Along," is It was in the early part, I think. First I think the third number. And you know Adelaide Hall in Arthur Chorus. Adelaide Adelaide Hall was in the chorus and she did it--sang it with Florence Mills too? Flonernce Mills came in and after, after--I can't think of a girl's name. Gertrude Saunders. Gertrude Saunders. Listen, what she did. She left the show to go with the burlesque show for five dollars a week more and that was the mistake she made. Yeah. [match strike] And--and Flonernce Mills, boy, most dynamic- Yeah. -woman I've ever seen on a stage. You hear then memories of--of "Shuffle She was a clever woman. Pleasantly, "Bandana Days." This this pit orchestra is the orchestra you used to record with? Yeah. These are the same fellows, those guys who supposedly couldn't read? Oh, [All read, all read?] I wanna to ask you about that myth: that matter of not being able to read. Right after, right after we hear "Bandana Days." Alright. [pause in recording] Again 1921, that recording. And I'm just wild about Harry is the refrain on there. Yeah, that's a story. One of the most celebrated of Eubie Blake's- Yeah -pieces. Harry? Yeah. Yes, I--I wrote that years ago, but it was a waltz and Miss G [cough], uh you know, we sent for Miss G. Miss Loli G, big--one the big one of the stars of "Shuffle Just passed, uh, while I was in Los Angeles. And I played this waltz for her. So she says, 'I liked the tune, but I I can't sing it.' I knew of her range, you see? She had a D above the staff, and I never took her no further than a B flat, see, 'cause Will Mary Cook taught me that: not to take people that-that last note. So anyhow, I says, 'Why can't you sing?' She says, 'Because it's a waltz song. Whoever heard of a waltz song in a colored show, I said, 'I did.' [Laughs]. Then she said, 'What show?'I said Williams and Walker's-- Williams and Walker. Williams and Walker. God- One of the early-- In Dahomey or-- This Abyssin-- That Abyssinian! Abyssinian.
Eubie Blake It was called When The Pale Moonshine.
Bob Kimball Moonshine.
Studs Terkel Mmm-hmm
Eubie Blake She says I was a chorus girl and that. This is 1902 now.
Eubie Blake This-oh, and she says I was a chorus girl. And that Sissle was always more commercial than I am. I'm an artistic guy, you know. [Studs Laughs] You know if you ask Sissle [Studs Laughs] for what time is it, and he tells you the time and he holds out his hand for you to give him somthin'. [Group Laughs] So anyhow, she said, 'But if you put it in one step, I'll do it.' I said, 'No, I'm not gonna put it.' Sissle says 'Oh yes you are, you going put--play it one step.' I played it one step, and that's what made the
Studs Terkel That's--That's interesting, Eubie and Bob and Bill. This matter of sometimes you write something, but an event occurs, the artist or someone, and you improvise a great deal and something new comes out of it, unexpected.
Eubie Blake That's right, something came out of it,
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Eubie Blake I played it in one step and she says, 'Now I'll--I'll sing it.'
Bob Kimball And and Eubie isn't it true the song was nearly thrown out of the show?
Eubie Blake Almost thrown out. It wasn't thrown
Bob Kimball Almost.
Eubie Blake Yeah, and and we had a boy named--
Eubie Blake Bob Lee. Look, there's there's six chorus men. Now, this boy, he had an illusion that he was George Walker, see?
Bill Bolcolm Thought could he could dance.
Eubie Blake So,
Studs Terkel Walker was a famous dancer.
Bill Bolcolm Yeah, George Walker,
Eubie Blake They'd put him on first. He-- Coming out first, six men. And he--he don't know when to come off, see? And Sissle run down, said, 'What's happening?' I said, 'Don't touch it.' The people were screaming.
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Eubie Blake This guy's out there still dancing by himself. [Laughter] Because the other guys left him out there, see? And the house took 21 encores-
Eubie Blake -and it sounded like a lot. 21 encores.
Studs Terkel Again we come to the
Eubie Blake And that's how that happen.
Studs Terkel By the way as we're talking about the orchestra, the Sissle and Blake orchestra, 1921 on "Shuffle Along," the piano and I noticed a picture Hall Johnson--later known for the choir--William Grant, still the eminent composer, [Bill mumbers in agreement] is there to read. So the the talent that--was that the first Black musical on Broadway for a long run?
Eubie Blake Yeah, yeah. They got that Colin Johnson, and and uh--
Bill Bolcolm Williams and Walker.
Eubie Blake Williams and Walker had played Broadway. But the theatres were dark when they played Broadway.
Bob Kimball And they play three weeks, four weeks, and then they tour around the
Studs Terkel And as we're talking there's sort of a history?
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Studs Terkel Of early music, a turn of the century music, but also a new development occurring. The aspect of syncopation, a new form coming in--the richness of one aspect--
Bill Bolcolm --Oh
Studs Terkel --of jazz, so we got to come to James Reese Europe and his travels to Europe.
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Studs Terkel Who was James playing the music of Sissle and Blake? Who was James Reese Europe?
Studs Terkel Jim Europe. A lot of people don't know
Eubie Blake Well, he studied--he stuided in Howard University then went to NYU--no, not it. What's that other college in New York?
Studs Terkel Columbia.
Bob Kimball Emerson?
Eubie Blake Columbia! And he studied there. [Tape clicks] And, but all Jim would do--he'd--well we would be playing the big house, the big hotels. He'd come out, 'All right, men' Oh, he's a great big fella, you know. 'All right man. All right, then.' Bam! And hand to stick to me tha- then he'd go down on floor with the millionaires [Studs Laughs] And talk with the millionaires, see? He'd never did anything [Studs continues to laugh] after he got his name. He didn't--I did all of work.
Studs Terkel But that was the first time jazz hit Europe though,
Bob Kimball And even before that, he is responsible for the foxtrot. He worked--
Eubie Blake That's
Bob Kimball --with Vernon and Irene Castle and they changed the tempo and the rhythm on the Memphis Blues and that became the foxtrot. And Jim Europe did that. Few people know of this man.
Bill Bolcolm You always think, you see, before that people did a lot of fast dancing and Jim Europe was a guy who slowed it down to the foxtrot tempo. And--who--when you think of all the popular songs that followed after that, which are in Foxtrot tempo, you have to, in a way, think of Jim Europe.
Studs Terkel We're talking about World War One, aren't
Eubie Blake Yes, World War One.
Studs Terkel And he was there even before World War One, wasn't he? In Europe.
Eubie Blake Yeah, this was before and
Bill Bolcolm And he's one of the
Eubie Blake Had the military band, they went abroad. And I didn't go because I I--I was four years over. I didn't have to go to war, I'm no fighter anyhow. [Group chuckles]. And they used to--
Bob Kimball And
Eubie Blake You know what they used to do?
Studs Terkel What?
Eubie Blake Introduce me to the girls, see? Meet slacker, Eubie Blake. [Group Laughs] Well have to go if I
Bob Kimball Sissle and Europe went together in the 369th, they had a band.
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Bob Kimball And--they while they were over there they did a lot of work. So we introduced jazz and [tea?]
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Bob Kimball -to the continent.
Studs Terkel So we're here now. Gee, I'm glad I'm from Dixie. This is one of the early
Bob Kimball This is his early--
Studs Terkel This is Jim Europe.
Bob Kimball Early piece with Jim Europe's orchestra and Sissle's the vocalist on that.
Studs Terkel [Ana said?], Eubie Blake's music.
Bob Kimball That's right. [Pause for recording]
Eubie Blake Well--
Studs Terkel Think about this 1919, that was Noble Sissle singing wasn't
Eubie Blake Noble Sissle, that's right.
Studs Terkel I'm thinking, Eubie, this--this the sense of life. That would--of course, a lot of stereotype humor, but that sense of life [Eubie nonverbally agrees] and was always in some of these songs that was this comedy talk in the middle wasn't
Eubie Blake Yeah, we took comedies. Comedy talk, you see?
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Eubie Blake -that that that when he's talked about. Nobody knew I had on your pants till I fell in that mud, see? [Group laughs] Well you have to fake the rest
Eubie Blake -this guy hollering murder with 'when he got my pants on sitting in the mud, see?' But they don't say
Studs Terkel How would that--when you and Noble Sissle work, we heard him singing it. Would he be singing it too? Would you sing too? He'd sing it out. As
Eubie Blake I would talk to him, talk to
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Eubie Blake I would talk to him, and I'd be playing piano fast, you know? All my tricks I put in
Bill Bolcolm Yeah, we got to make a little transition right here because what happened was that Europe was coming' back after the war, really came down in triumph and was a great success and alls--all the things that starting, the first part of 1919 was going to go right ahead and just absolutely just clean up the whole country. And in May he got stabbed by one of his orchestra members. And it of course it was a great shock to, uh, to both Sissle and Blake, and it was actually Sissle and Blake weren't Sissle and Blake so much then as--as they were to become. They thought their best way of--of remembering Europe.
Studs Terkel This was pre-"Shuffle Along,"
Bill Bolcolm This is pre -Shuffle and it's 1919. So they formed a vaudeville act. And they opened their vaudeville act with what you just heard "Gee, I'm
Unknown [Singing] "Gee, I'm glad that I'm from
Bill Bolcolm And they finished up with "On Patrol in No Man's Land," which was the thing that he used to do with Sissle used to do with Europe's band in Europe. But they worked it out just Sissle and Blake, Blake at the piano and Sissle singing.
Studs Terkel So this again 1919?
Bob Kimball The close of the Sissle and Blake vaudeville act.
Studs Terkel The Sissle and Blake vaudeville act after which came "Shuffle Along."
Studs Terkel So there's still about 1918--19,
Bob Kimball 1919,
Bill Bolcolm 1919, Yeah. [pause
Studs Terkel And in the second half, now we come to ragtime. Well this is sort of the beginnings, the musical vaudeville. The effect you've had Eubie on various artists and fact on theater, musical theater, in America. And we'll come right back to ragtime music. And Eubie Blake. [pause in recording] That's Eubie Blake playing "Dreamland."
Bill Bolcolm That was the applause you heard was at a--at a studio, Columbia. John Hammond-
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Bill Bolcolm -who did so much for so many artists helped bring Eubie back--Blake out of retirement to make that record--
Studs Terkel Yeah. For Columbia.
Studs Terkel I'm thinking Eubie--I know that--uh--Bill--Bob--Bob Kimball and Bill Bolcolm here, we're talkin' about Eubie playing better now than ever--even than four years ago.
Studs Terkel What is it Eubie? This is the question often asked-
Eubie Blake I practiced more now.
Bill Bolcolm Forget
Studs Terkel The questions gotta come up, Eubie? [Laughter] How come?
Studs Terkel How come that vitality now
Eubie Blake I don't know what it--people ask me, what cause what was the--my contribution to my longevity. I don't know, all I know. My father lived to be 83 years old, [Studs laugh] and he never had on my father--mother and father was slaves, you know, and my mother never he--owned up. The only [wilful?] story that I know that my mother ever told. No, no I never was a slave.
Studs Terkel He
Eubie Blake My father was 19 years older than my mother, and he'd say to me [A cough]. He'd say to her, 'Well, did you pick cotton?' She says, 'Yes.' 'So did the man pay you?' She says,'No' and then he'd wink at me and says 'Slave right along with you.' He wouldn't say it out loud
Eubie Blake -she'd jump on you and kill him, you know?
Studs Terkel You were born just about 18 years after the Civil War ended?
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Studs Terkel Yeah. Did your father talk about slave days?
Eubie Blake Yeah, he taught me. He used to tell me about slavery. Take his crack walnuts for me. Give me walnuts and showed me, the stripes on his back, see? Well they--they didn't allow them to talk--
Studs Terkel --You mean the stripes where we
Eubie Blake --And you know cotton doesn't grow any higher than that.
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Eubie Blake And that makes some bend over, like this, from--um--sun up to sun down, see? And and the old man told me that he'd never had on a pair, leather shoes, until he went in the civil war, see? Carpet shoes, see? You know they had winters though and that guy lived 83 years.
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Studs Terkel What about you and music? How did you come to the piano?
Eubie Blake How did I come to the piano?
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Eubie Blake That's a long story. I'll tell it as short as possible.
Studs Terkel Alright.
Eubie Blake My mother and father used to go to market late at night, so they could get the things cheaper on Saturday night, see? And we there's a street in Baltimore called Broadway. This part of Broadway from Baltimore Street down. Baltimore divides--Baltimore Street divides [Heavy Intake of Air from Someone] the Baltimore in the north and south. And I don't know whether you'd ever been to California or to--to--Frisco, see? Or I better San Francisco, [Studs Laughs] you gotta stay that way. And, uh, Canal Street in in New Orleans, the widest streets I'd ever seen. Now, Baltimore Street from that part I told you. Is a half a size over these two streets. And my mother and father were going down to a market and that's near the wharf, and I'm toddling, but I don't remember the story, my mother told me this story.
Bob Kimball About six years old--
Eubie Blake And there was a man named Eisenbrand, had a music store across the street. So she looked back, and she didn't see me. She gave one scream and this white man was behind us, says, 'What's the matter?' Says, 'I lost my little boy! Says, 'He went over to that music store.'Listen to this good, now. I had never touched a piano in my life. We had an organ. This guy's demonstrating an organ, you pump with your feet. Says, 'He went over there.' And he went--I saw this man doing that when I got there. Well he's finished--finish--demonstrating, and I tried to play the organ. I couldn't play, I didn't know how to, and I put and the organ wouldn't play, see? [And this walked it?]--Knows what the man says? He's a genius! He's a genius! [Group laughs] I had never--he wants to sell this organ. [More laughter] They got the organ for a dollar down and twenty-five cents a week [Eubie chuckles].
Studs Terkel So that's how it happened?
Eubie Blake So that makes you pay for it the rest of your life.
Studs Terkel Rest
Eubie Blake And that's how I got the
Studs Terkel So that's how you came to music?
Bill Bolcolm When did you first hear the "Dream Rag?"
Bill Bolcolm Which we just heard.
Eubie Blake I--I don't, I don't think I had--I think I'm pretty sure I had on short pants. Jesse Pickett heard me playin' some way and because he was a gentleman of leisure. Diamonds on, you know? And these people were--we were [inaudible].
Eubie Blake He couldn't come in that house, you know. So he rapped on the door, a big shot, see? And he says, 'Who's that playing the organ?' Says, 'Eubie,' see? Says, 'Tell him come out.' We wouldn't invite him in a house because he's, you know, these gentlemen of leisure. Couldn't go that in that house [Studs laughs]. High up on echelon, those people were. [Studs laughs]. So he'd he says come up to corner I show you how to play somethin', and I'm I'm sure I had on short pants. And Jesse must have been around 50 years. I'll say it's forty-eight years old then. And he taught me how to play the "Dream Rag." And people think today day that I wrote--I didn't write the "Dream Rag."
Bob Kimball And that came out--
Eubie Blake And it's in six flats and then goes into five sharps. The the toughest keys to play on the piano, he taught it
Studs Terkel How about "Brittwood Rag?" "Brittwood Rag.
Eubie Blake Oh, that's lately, I wrote that bout--
Bob Kimball It was Atlantic City,
Bob Kimball It was written in--you know, when you worked down there during the summers and--
Eubie Blake Boathouse,
Bob Kimball And then years later, you were with [Romeyn?]
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Eubie Blake Yeah. Willie Gant, the fella named, Willie Gant. And and I heard him playing this, I was upstairs talking to--to [Romeyn?]. I said, 'I know that tone.' So I says--he says what's it, I says, 'I don't know the name of it.' So he said, 'Why don't you go down there and ask Willie?' So I said, 'Willie, what's that you playing?' Now this is not Willie "the Lion", Willie Gant. No, see--
Studs Terkel Not Willie "the Lion" Smith, but somebody else?
Eubie Blake No, so he says, 'You don't know the tune?' I says, 'I've heard it someplace.' He says, 'You wrote it, you taught it to me. [Group laughs] And I have never--I'd forgotten all
Studs Terkel Suppose we hear you playing it now?
Eubie Blake Huh?
Studs Terkel Suppose we hear you playing it now?
Eubie Blake Alright, listen to
Studs Terkel "Brittwood Rag," Oh Eubie, and this Bill Bolcolm comes into this too. Ragtime. The very phrase itself. What is it that distinguishes ragtime piano from other forms of early jazz?
Eubie Blake It's the syncopation. Any--any time. I know a lot of long hairs like that guy. He--he you know, he knows--
Studs Terkel Like Bill Bolcolm, you mean.
Eubie Blake He know everything about rag [Studs laughs]--about music. When I tell people as soon as you syncopate and carry the rhythm with--and the treble clef, that's ragtime I don't care. You take it [Eubie scats in rag time] that's [this?], isn't it? [Eubie scats in rag time] Wanita. [Eubie scats in rag time] That's ragtime. Alright, I'll give you
Bob Kimball [Inaudible] a tune, see?
Bill Bolcolm Your left hand is going solid and your right hand is raggin' the melody. He's playing jokes with
Eubie Blake Syncopation. That's all it is.
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Eubie Blake Now [More scatting from Eubie] this is Tchaikovsky [More scatting from Eubie] that's ragtime.
Studs Terkel
Bob Kimball And And there you are.
Eubie Blake Soon as you syncopated, that's ragtime.
Studs Terkel I suppose the word 'swing' too would be that, in a sense. To synocapte.
Eubie Blake Well that's a solid swing there-
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Eubie Blake -when you carrying that bass.
Studs Terkel But
Bill Bolcolm But these all these all these categories, you know, got really categorized more by the commercial beat.
Studs Terkel Right.
Bill Bolcolm You see to Eubie, it's all ragtime,
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Bill Bolcolm -and I can see why he feels that way. You know, other people say there's jazz and there is boogie-
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Bill Bolcolm -and there are all these other classifications--to Eubie, it's all the same.
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Bill Bolcolm I think he's right
Studs Terkel So when a guy plays the barrelhouse piano, he's playing ragtime-- and James P. Johnson, who was a young kid player--disciple of yours.
Bill Bolcolm [Inaudible interruption] They call stride, but it's still still
Studs Terkel The word stride is used
Eubie Blake Stride, that's it. Doing [More scatting from Eubie]--with your
Bill Bolcolm Which is to say a great big spaces between the on beats and the off beats in the left and is, is in other words there was a bigger space than ragtime. Ragtime's closer in and there was your on and your offbeats are--are closer in where's a stride there's a big great big space between your bottom note, your little finger, and your chord. So that's the way it happens there. Now--uh--what we really wanted to talk a little bit about is not only is Eubie being represented by our book, you know, which is reminiscing with Sissel and Blake.
Studs Terkel Sissle' is still round and about.
Bill Bolcolm Oh surely, but I'm trying to say is that--I mean not only do we having a book out on him. Eubie has, you know, gone right ahead and made his own record company, and what he's done right now is he's put out, now, how many releases are there? Bob,
Bob Kimball Three, three records.
Eubie Blake Thre--three.
Bob Kimball Eubie started this company he's done--
Bob Kimball Three records and he's done some solo piano and then he's had his old friend colleague Ivan Harold Browning--a leading man from two of his shows-
Studs Terkel Yeah
Bob Kimball -and a great singer who--who lives in Chicago now: Edith Wilson, who was a great star of the 20s and was also in a show of Eubie's back in the early
Studs Terkel 'Suppose we hear that, Ed-we'll hear that Edith Wilson now. She's your
Eubie Blake [cousin?]-- Yes.
Studs Terkel He may be your man and
Eubie Blake She come to see me sometime.
Studs Terkel [Pause in recording [laughter]Edith Wilson, you're magnificent.
Eubie Blake Edith, I love you for singing that song. [Studs laughs] Nobody can do it like you Edith.
Studs Terkel And you you've known her for some time.
Eubie Blake Oh yes, I knew her when she was a young girl. I knew her.
Eubie Blake She was a beautiful girl too.
Studs Terkel Yeah, I was thinking, Eubie this is a story of early jazz, a story of an art. Well, I hate to use that word: long hair [unintelligible] art form, but it is. There's a richness--
Eubie Blake Oh
Studs Terkel That--that's it's really American in it's origin.
Eubie Blake It's really- it's it's the only American music.
Studs Terkel Primarily the Black man's contribution.
Bill Bolcolm Yeah.
Studs Terkel It has come out of so many forms of music. [Eubie
Bill Bolcolm Well, that's how I got interested in it, you know.
Studs Terkel How
Bill Bolcolm Yes, well because I was looking for the real American music and about 1967 or so, I started getting into ragtime. Other than that--
Studs Terkel I was thinking Bill, 'suppose we hear you. You were influenced by Eubie Blake a lot.
Bill Bolcolm Well yeah, well of course, you know, we're good friends and I think--I think he's my oldest friend, as I say. [Group laughs] And, uh, so he's taught me an awful lot. He's taught me really an awful lot. And this little piece we're going to do right now is a piece I did with another friend of ours who, you know, too that's Bill Albright.
Eubie Blake Yes.
Bill Bolcolm Bill and I wrote this together. You see--
Studs Terkel "Brass Knuckles."
Studs Terkel Yeah, this is just kind of like a funny joke piece song. You know we really trying to do a kind of a funny piece, you know. Cause--So it's kind of, you know, we always start out talking about this particular little piece is the most delicate little ragtime you ever heard. And here it is "Brass Knuckles." [music fades].
Studs Terkel I suppose, Eubie, hearing Bill Bolcolm and "Brass Knuckles" and in the way the tradition or that it carries on. Ragtime carries on from one to another in
Studs Terkel It's one of the reasons for its popularity I suppose, isn't it? But that be another subject why it's so popular today I suppose people young--particularly looking--going back, looking for beginnings again isn't that it? Pretty much?
Bill Bolcolm Well I think we all want to pick up the thread.
Studs Terkel Yeah.
Bill Bolcolm There was a place in there where we kind of sort of lost our continuity, and this is well this is our classical American music. This is, you know, this is what we have in contribution that parallels Chopin or Beethoven and Mozart. This is our music. That's a thing, and it was Black people that brought it out, but it's really for all of us. It's for all of us and it's why Eubie is so generous with his time with anybody because he wants it to keep going and so do I.
Studs Terkel Why, I was thinking just as we come to an end, the tribute to an old colleague of Eubie Blake: Andy Razaf. Who was a--we think of him so often as the collaborator with Fats Waller so many of
Bill Bolcolm Oh sure. "Honeysuckle Roads."
Studs Terkel "Honeysuckle Roads."
Bill Bolcolm "Ain't misbehaving." Some of the great songs
Studs Terkel And he worked with you too Eubie.
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Eubie Blake I wrote many floor shows with
Studs Terkel And I--perhaps there's--what better song to end this particular hour with Eubie Blake and Bill Bolcolm, Bob Kimball, and memories of Eub. A word, perhaps, your own thoughts about memories of you, Eubie, your own thoughts about it now.
Eubie Blake Well, it was written. I can't tell why it was written. You know. But the--I think it's one of the best that and "Dixie Moon" one of the best numbers I think I've written melodically speaking.
Studs Terkel And Razaf. He do with the lyrics, just as he did
Eubie Blake Yeah he did the lyrics, yeah.
Bob Kimball Hey Eubie, what show did you do this for? You remember the show you wrote, this--this for?
Eubie Blake Oh, [this ] was "Blackbirds in 1930."
Bill Bolcolm Yeah.
Studs Terkel Yeah. Ethel Waters was in that, was she?
Eubie Blake Yeah.
Studs Terkel And Dusty Fletcher?
Bob Kimball Buck, Buck and Bubbles.
Eubie Blake Buck
Bill Bolcolm All kinds of good people [inaudible].
Studs Terkel Yeah, isn't it funny? Memories of you and I think of memories: small boy of all the richness [Inaudible background conversation]. I was just beginning--becoming--be aware of and Eubie Blake played a role in all of that. And so I think all of us at this moment can say to Eubie Blake, before he performs "The Memories of You, I want to thank Bill Bolcolm and Bob Kimball and Eubie Blake. Here's a toast to you.
Studs Terkel And "Memories of You," and thank you very much.
